PAM Winding

Discussion in 'Panerai Watches' started by ebueso1970, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. ebueso1970

    ebueso1970

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Points:
    323
    Posts:
    268
    Likes:
    0
    Hello All,

    Do PAMs have a disengaging mechanism on the winding like Rolex does...Where you can wind and wind and wind and no harm comes in the way of the mechanism??:?:

    On models like the PAM183( Radiomir Black Seal) or the PAM24 (Luminor Submersible), how many times should you wind it to be 100% charged??:thinking:

    Rgds,:cheers:
    Ed
  2. RW16610

    RW16610

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Points:
    96
    Posts:
    16,913
    Likes:
    0
    I would assume that pretty much any modern watch should have the clutch feature to prevent "overwinding" that could cause damage. Of course, i'm not 100% sure though but some of the guys here will be able to tell you better :cheers:
  3. RW16610

    RW16610

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Points:
    96
    Posts:
    16,913
    Likes:
    0
    This is from the infamous "ebay" article:




    "Where in the world did the phrase, "I over wound my watch" come from anyway? Do you think you can actually over wind your watch? Did someone tell you that you over wound your watch?

    These are all good questions and to an extent, the term "over wind and over wound" are correct. Yes we know and have heard it at least a thousand times, that "you can't over wind" a watch. The people who say that have heard the term before, and don't know what they are talking about. They seem to parrot the phrase in order to impress someone with their knowledge of watches. Well, here we go, they may be right and they may be wrong as the term was used.

    The term "over wind" originated back in the days of blue steel mainsprings and animal fat oils that were used to lubricate watches. So lets get one thing out of the way now. In technical terms, you can't actually over wind a watch. The mainspring will only go so far into its coil, if you could keep winding your watch, something would break. The stem might be the first thing to break, then for sure you would strip the teeth off the clutch. If the clutch and stem were to withstand the stress, then for sure the teeth in the crown wheel and ratchet wheel would strip. Now this would be over winding your watch. Now the details...

    Blue steel mainsprings were rather weak in terms of their ability not to take on a "set." This is when the mainspring conforms itself to a little larger in size than the space it occupies within the mainspring barrel. When they take on a set, it is difficult for the fully wound mainspring to release itself from its own coils and powering the watch.

    Watches were lubricated with animal fat oils. Over a period of about one year, these types of oils would tend to gel and become thick and tacky. Now, if you have both of these elements present in your watch, and you wind it up all the way, as far as it will go, the thick oil will bind the coils of the weak mainspring together and the coils will not slip and power the gear train. Here, you have now over wound your watch. Had you only wound it up say three forths of the way, the mainspring would still slip and provide some power to your watch. So you see, in this sense, you can and did over wind your watch.

    Old jewelers many years ago, would tell people that they over wound their watchs and that was the reason they stopped. For the average customer, the lack of information was OK. Why go into great detail as to why the watch stopped. It just took time away from the bench. The jeweler would tell them the watch needed to be cleaned. This took care of the problem for about a year or so until it needed to be cleaned again.

    It is interesting that now, after all of these years, we still hear people saying that they, "over wound" their watches. There are still many old watches out there that have not been serviced for decades. People will wind them up, and they will run for awhile, then one day, the dreadful "over winding" takes place.

    White alloy mainsprings and synthetic watch oils. These were very important inventions in the field of horology. The white alloy springs for the most part would not break and maintained their original "S" shaped form. The new oils did not gel and become thick like the old animal fat oils. Watches could go for much longer periods of time without the need for yearly cleaning. With these modern advances, the old terminology of "over winding" started to slowly fade away, just like the old watchmakers who coined the phrase in the good old days. A period of horological history that has long since vanished.

    We hope that you found this topic interesting and useful. If we can help you with your questions or solve your "over winding" questions.


    Guide ID: 10000000001632352Guide created: 08/17/06 (updated 12/22/08)"




    http://reviews.ebay.com/Over-Wind-or-Over-Wound-Watch-Mainspring_W0QQugidZ10000000001632352




    The ebay articles are known to have a very 1 sided (or exegerated) view. Does not mean that there is no truth to this, though. The new Pam's should be the same, just wanted to share this until someone else responds with an actual answer. The only damaged watches from winding that I could find articles on were very old pocket watches.



    Also, I am pretty sure Chad "leopardprey" can answer as to how many times to wind it. He posted before on that, and how many turs of the crown it would take to go from 0 to fully charged power reserve.

    A little in the mourning and then before bed is what most seem to do with other manual wind watches.
  4. Xelor

    Xelor

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Points:
    1,354
    Posts:
    1,260
    Likes:
    0
    My 111 arrived today and when you wind it fully it stops you from winding any further. It is quite obvious when it is fully wound, at least on the Pam 111 it is.
  5. RW16610

    RW16610

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Points:
    96
    Posts:
    16,913
    Likes:
    0
    :yahoo: :yahoo: It came! Good stuff. And that should help answer this question too :smile:
  6. SPACE-DWELLER

    SPACE-DWELLER

    Gold Member
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Points:
    29,410
    Posts:
    29,199
    Likes:
    4
    Mohammed,

    as far as I know, the M/W PAM's do not have the inbuilt safety clutch to prevent overwinding, so I believe you'd be best off to stop winding it any further when you feel a resistance just like John does.

    BTW.: The PAM233 seems to take about 150 turns of the crown to get fully wound (8+ days power reserve).
  7. colemanitis

    colemanitis

    TKF Founder Staff Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Points:
    26,692
    Posts:
    26,208
    Likes:
    74
    The PAM 111 stops winding when it's fully wound. I'm not sure how the other models work, though.
  8. daveathall

    daveathall

    Premium Member
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Points:
    128
    Posts:
    11,494
    Likes:
    3
    The PAM 24 is automatic so I would imagine it would have a disengage gear mechanism, not certain though. I never got to a stage where I felt any resistance.
  9. ebueso1970

    ebueso1970

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Points:
    323
    Posts:
    268
    Likes:
    0
    Good intel guys!! I finally ended up purchasing the PAM24 from my AD for two reasons:

    1-It was K serial as opposed to the 183 being J serial.
    2- Both watches were checked on the rate machine prior to my decision making...the PAM24 was on the dot -1, +2 secs a day, where as the PAM183 was loosing 10 secs a day.

    So as you see I really need to know if the 24 with it's auto mechanism has the disengaging clutch!!


    Rgds,
    Ed
  10. colemanitis

    colemanitis

    TKF Founder Staff Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Points:
    26,692
    Posts:
    26,208
    Likes:
    74
    Congrats on the PAM 24! :rocker: Just give the crown 40-50 turns. Wearing it on your wrist for an hour or so will wind it the rest of the way if it's not already fully wound. :cheers: :thumbsup:
  11. ebueso1970

    ebueso1970

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Points:
    323
    Posts:
    268
    Likes:
    0
    Thanks Jeff! I am now a proud Panerai owner!!!!!!!! As soon as I receive it this Sunday I will try to post pics!

    You all have been very helpful and supportive.....which is why I absolutely enjoy, value and recommend this forum to anyone!... Once again THANKS EVERYBODY (TKF)

    Ed
  12. Xelor

    Xelor

    Silver Member
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Points:
    1,354
    Posts:
    1,260
    Likes:
    0
    Congrats Ed, there seem to be a flood of us recently going with a Pam. Can't wait to see pictures of yours!
  13. colemanitis

    colemanitis

    TKF Founder Staff Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Points:
    26,692
    Posts:
    26,208
    Likes:
    74
    You're very welcome! I can't wait to see the pics! :beardjump:
  14. MYK

    MYK

    Bronze Member
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Points:
    545
    Posts:
    511
    Likes:
    0
    Thanks for the useful info, but I never asked. :lol: