Question To Panerai Owners

Discussion in 'Panerai Watches' started by SPACE-DWELLER, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. SPACE-DWELLER

    SPACE-DWELLER

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    Guys, bear with me, but the PAM 270 still haunts me.

    It is such a lovely looking watch and has an excellent in-house movement. There is just ONE thing that bugs me a bit:

    The lacking minute markers between the five-markers! :banghead:

    I know it's part of Panerai's minimalistic design, but somehow I don't feel like "guessing" what EXACT time it is (for instance 11, 12 or 13 minutes past??).

    So my question is: Is is really just a question of getting used to that minimalistic dial design? Do you ever have ANY doubt when looking at your watch what EXACT time it is?

    I ask since more and more I believe that 42+ mm watches simply look best on my wrist. Anything around but not smaller than 40 mm. is OK, too, but somehow the bigger watches suit me better and it would be cool to have a non-Rolex brand of excellent quality to compliment my Rolex DSSD and Daytona.
  2. RW16610

    RW16610

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    I don't own one of those, never have but it beats Movado dials! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    My guess is you would get used to it but I too prefer a watch with all the minute markers etc. Also was never too big a Panerai lover but their great watches indeed. Your making the right choice of checking around first of course and you did mention to compliment your DSSD? You are not selling it now?
  3. SPACE-DWELLER

    SPACE-DWELLER

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    Nah, I will give my DSSD a second chance.

    I just studied the info about the PAM Cal. 2002 movt.

    The GMT II function of the watch does seem to be working the same way as the Rolex GMT II since it says:

    "The GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) function is a speciality through which a special hand shows the time in the place of departure while the local time is displayed by the two main hands of the watch." ((Click).

    Maybe you can confirm that, Chad? The PAM 233 that you have in general works in the same way, I'd say.

    Also, is the lume of PAM's as good as they say?

    Oh, btw.: it does not say that the Cal. 2002 movt. is COSC rated, but I would suppose it is.
  4. RW16610

    RW16610

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    Oh ok cool :) And yes Chad should know a little something about this.
  5. leopardprey

    leopardprey

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    No issue at all with no minute markers between the 5 minute intervals. Never have a problem telling what time it is to the minute. Especially since the Seconds hand is on a sub dial at 9 oclock. Many times have started a swim or training session at a 2, 3, or 4 min interval and gone 20-30 minutes and can easily tell when it is back on the 2,3,or 4 after 20 or 30 minutes.


    As for the 233 vs the 270. I would go with the 233 instead for several reasons. I think just having the 6 and 12, gives a more symetrical apperance than the 9 added. Also the 270, with the added rotor is a but thicker. Plus I prefer the day/night indicator on the 233 over the am/pm indicator on the 270. Finally, the 233 is several thousand dollars cheaper than the 270.

    As for the lum, yes it is outstanding!!! That is why I love my 233, IWC Aquatimer Vintage, and Glashutte Navigator Automatik. All have outstanding lum that last all night long. And all are 44mm.

    The Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, at 45mm (but wears more like a 43 or 44) also has outstanding lumination, a 5 day power reservce, and anti-magnetic case and domed crystal.

    Now, my 233 is in the Service Center for repair for a couple of weeks. After wearing for 6 months straight it developed a power reserver problem. But, then again I was pretty hard on the watch (don't tell the Service Center! I am covered under warranty). I wore it everday for just about 6 month, including 1 month mountain biking everyday, and around 2 months wearing it while working out on a Epilipitcal Trainer and swimming laps in a pool. But, should have it back in another week. 3 weeks turnaround is not bad for the service.

    No, the 233 is not COSC rated. For the Panerai In house movements, Panerai does their own extreme testing. The 233 comes with a special book, that list all the testing and various rates. Same as COSC rates. Each time the watch is serviced, it is tested again and recorded in the same book.

    Bo, I think you would be very very happy with the 233. Has all you are looking for. Great size, curved case, domed crystal, 100m WR, see through case back. easy strap change system, GMT function, and great lum.

    The GMT function on the 233 works similiar to a Rolex GMT II. But, what is nice is it is based on 12 hours rather than 24 hours (the day/night indicator then tells if GMT Time Zone is day or night). So if you want, you can "hide" the GMT hand behind the hour hand. Gives the dial a bit less clutter if you do not need the GMT hand, though the GMT hand being black is very subdued.

    As for strap, I find I really like the 2 Peice Zulu straps on the watch. And you will also really like Europelli Baseball Glove Leather straps. Very soft and comfortable. They are vegetable oil tanned (no Chromium).
  6. DSimon9

    DSimon9

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    Out of curiosity, why is the Pam 233 (a GMT model) pricier than the equivalent Rolex GMT? I love Panerais (although they seem a bit large for my wrist). Is it the material, ruggedness, reliability, availability?
  7. leopardprey

    leopardprey

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    In general Panerais are expensive, due to the fact that the brand is more exclusive than Rolex. Rolex makes around 900,000 watches a year, Panerai makes around 50,000 a year. And for the 233, only around 1000 made last year, and this year I believe only 2000 made. Compared to probably around 25,000 or more GMT IIs being made this year (if I had to make a guess). And Panerai pretty much sells all of their watches at no discount. Their watches are in very strong demand here in Asia. Most of the ADs usually only have some 40mm versions and Rose Gold models and maybe a Ratt. Chrono in stock. The rest of the line up, you have to put your name on a waiting list. The only brand at several of the ADs here in Asia, that y ou get no discount on. Plus, with the 233 you have a new in-house movement, which means developmental and engineering cost are rolled into the watch. Plus to make a manual wind movement with 8 days of power reserve that also can have a date and GMT Function, takes more Engineering and research to build. Also the way the domed sapphire crystal is made on the 233 is a more exepensive process. Of course, IMO, much of the engineering of the 233 came from JLC. The movement does have the double bridge very similiar to the rugged and reliable JLC 975 caliber.

    That being said, with the price increases in April and in Sept, they are getting very exepnsive. I am glad I bought my 233 in March.
  8. DSimon9

    DSimon9

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    Chad, thanks for the information.
  9. colemanitis

    colemanitis

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    You're right, Chad. Low production numbers and high demand are rapidly driving up Panerai prices.
  10. Goldbug

    Goldbug

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    :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

    Great information all!
  11. SPACE-DWELLER

    SPACE-DWELLER

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    :coolanimated: info, Chad! :thumbsup:

    I might opt for the 233 instead although I were never a fan of manually wound watches.

    What about the re-sale value of PAM's like this (233 / 270)?
  12. SPACE-DWELLER

    SPACE-DWELLER

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    Oh, another question:

    on the Panerai site, it says about some of the models that their crystals are AR coated... would that be on BOTH sides or on the inside only?
  13. Cmaster03

    Cmaster03

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    Bo, I haven't had the pleasure of owning a Panerai. However, I have owned and used a number of manual wind watches over the years and find it very enjoyable to wind them, and not tedious or a "drag". I don't know if you've tried one lately, but I suspect as regular as you are in your habits "Get up at 5 AM, coffee, Dunhill pipe..." you might actually enjoy a manual wind. :thumbsup:

    For a watch lover, the tactile pleasure of winding their watch is not to be overlooked.

    I think I'll go get my ol' Hamilton 992B out and wind 'er up. All this talk of manual winds makes me want to wind one. :laugh:

    [​IMG]
  14. leopardprey

    leopardprey

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    Cmaster, That is great looking pocket watch!!! When I get back to the USA I want to buy a couple of old pocket watches.

    Bo, to be honest, winding up every day or every other day, the Panerai 118 I have is not too bad, but sometimes I do forget and it is a pain. Plus continual opening and closing does wear on it.

    Now, with the Panerai 233 you only have to wind it up once a week, plus you have a power indicator to tell you where it is at power wise. It is a pleaure to wind up. I think you would enjoy it. From empty, takes about 1.5 minutes to fully wind up.

    Now as for the Crystal, to be honest I do not know if it AR coated on jsu the insde or both sides. If I had to take a guess I would say inside only. Works real well. Have banged the crystal up against stuff all the time and no issues so far with scrathes.

    As for resell, the 233 retains more of it's value and is much easier to resell than the 270. This is due to the lower price plus the 233 being the Icon of Panerai in-house watches. Actually, it is much easier to find a 270 for sale as well. They do not sell as fast or are in as high of demand as the 233. Here in Asia the 233 is the hardest Panerai to get a hold of right now.
  15. Cmaster03

    Cmaster03

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    Thanks, Chad. Not trying to hijack the thread, but one very nice thing about the old pocket watches compared to our modern wristies is PRICE. You can pick up a nice Hamilton 992B in excellent shape- basically a COSC watch- for 300-500 dollars US.

    Of course rare models and collectible ones go up from there, but a nice "carry watch" can be picked up very reasonably. :thumbsup:
  16. leopardprey

    leopardprey

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    Yeah, I know. Vintage Railroad grade pocket watches 100 years old and completley serviced for under $1000. Makes you really stop and think about how over priced our wrist watches are.
  17. SPACE-DWELLER

    SPACE-DWELLER

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    OK, getting more and more tempted at the 233. Very good points, Chad and Clyde! :thumbsup:
  18. DSimon9

    DSimon9

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    Clyde, do you wear suit and ties often enough where you get to wear your pocket watch? I like them, but since I normally dress casually, I have had difficulties justifying a purchase since I would not be able to use it often.
  19. BlueB6

    BlueB6

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    Been a Panny guy for a while now and IMO, the 233 is THE best and most wrist-worthy Panerai in the current catalogue. Why? It's 44mm and yet it's got the inimitable Fiddy case. It has GMT functionality, yet it can hide the fourth hand behind the hour hand, it has an a.m./p.m. inidcator, the seconds hand sets to zero when you set the time, it has an 8-day movement which can easily be stretched to nine days + according to a couple of friends, and most important of all, it has Panerai's first in-house ebauche.

    The in-house thing is huge because IMO (and remember I'm a Panerai guy) the movements in the rest of the pannies are pretty stock movements from ETA or Valjoux. Now watches like the 190 and the 98 have JLC and Piguet movements so they are no slouches at all, but owning a first generation in-house movement is essentially getting in on the ground floor of a new era for a watch brand.

    If I had $12K to drop on a watch, without question it would be on a 233.
  20. Cmaster03

    Cmaster03

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    Hi Dex,

    That's a great question...(sorry again to Bo for jacking his Panerai thread!)

    Actually I don't wear a coat and tie very often, though a pocket watch does look excellent with a three piece suit. The great thing about a pocket watch is you don't need a vest to wear it. If you wear jeans, most come with a pocket that we often forget is a WATCH pocket. Here's the kind of strap or fob I use for that:

    [​IMG]

    The guy I got those from is named Kyle Shold. He makes premium bullwhips mostly, but does watch lanyards on the side. These were made of kangaroo hide.

    If you are wearing dress trousers (or shorts for that matter) or a two piece suit without a vest, a simple chain or leather strap( a leather shoe lace works, too!) can run from your belt loop to your pocket. This was quite common in the 30s and 40s when men were wearing suits that didn't have vests, I think. Sometimes you will also see a little chain going from a guy's shirt button to his chest pocket in period photos. That was another way to carry the pocket watch.

    Also, some dress trousers come with watch pockets at the belt line, kinda like the issue khakis in WWII. Worth looking for. Heck, my police uniform trousers at work have them, but I have noticed they are a tad hard to access with a duty gun belt on. :banghead:

    So don't let the lack of a vest stop you from wearing a pocket watch. I wore my Hamilton today with blue jeans and my leather Roo hide lanyard. Worked like a champ!