Tag or Timex, no difference at all...

Discussion in 'Other Watch Brands' started by ReaganLogan, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. ReaganLogan

    ReaganLogan

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    Ok, take a $3,000 Tag then add in pretentiousness and you have a Tag. Take out the pretentiousness and you have a Timex.
    Let me know what makes the upper tier watches any better then the Big Box retail outlet offerings of time pieces.
    Oooh and it has to be more than pretentious reasoning.
    Give me hard examples of how they keep better time or split atoms and save the Panda's...
  2. Korean Cowboy

    Korean Cowboy

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    TAGs are good looking watches, but are junk...same with Seiko.

    I have quite a few Timexes in my collection, and they all function superbly.
  3. ReaganLogan

    ReaganLogan

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    agreed, so it is almost as if those who by a mid range Tag IE Acura who think they are balling, are faking the funk so to say.
    It is not like they have the loot to sport a specially made $50,000 watch IE Rolls Royce around their wrist.
  4. colemanitis

    colemanitis

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    Tag makes a good watch, especially now that they're transitioning to in-house movements. I'll admit that their quartz models leave a lot to be desired under the hood. I wouldn't mind owning one and probably will eventually.
  5. MikeMc

    MikeMc

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    It's interesting that you are comparing Timex and TAG Heuer. The only fair comparison between the two is time keeping, as the Timex is an excellent time keeper, and is less expensive, but in no other way is comparable to TAG.
  6. Restes Nek

    Restes Nek

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    To compare Seiko with Tag and to dismiss it as junk does a disservice to a well made and affordable watch. Seiko has many firsts in the field of Horology and, whether you like it or not, it isn't junk.
    Seiko is the first and one of two companies that makes every part, every lubricant that goes into its watches.
    Tag is a Swatch brand and uses, for the most part, the less expensive ETA movements. The Tag quartz chronograph uses a throw-away ETA movement that costs about $100 retail. The other $1000.00 you pay for the watch is the name and a few ounces of stainless steel.
  7. MikeMc

    MikeMc

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    I don't know if you were referring to me or the Korean Cowboy comparing Seiko with TAG, but I don't compare the two. I was a Seiko dealer for forty years, and I would never say they were junk. However, they are not the quality they were 30 years ago for their regular $100.00 to $500.00 line. Seiko makes excellent quality watches in the Grand Seiko and their spring drive watches are amazing. I have been a TAG dealer for over twenty years and have owned many watches of both brands, and we carry many other brands including Rolex. They are not comparable, they are different. A $300.00 Seiko is not comparable to a $1900.00 TAG even if both have quartz movements. Their construction is different. TAG Heuer also has a license to produce a movement of Seiko design, the 1887, being produced by TAG with only a few parts produced by Seiko in Japan, the rest by TAG in Switzerland. TAG must have some respect for Seiko. We do repair on most every brand of watches that are not fashion companies, i.e. Michael Kors, Anne Klein etc. I can find design errors and execution errors with some models of every company, but that doesn't mean I don't like the companies. By the way TAG Heuer isn't a Swatch company. They are a division of LVMH. Your comment about the other $1000.00 for a few ounces of stainless steel is ill informed.
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  8. 1680

    1680

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    Harsh post but I don't own either a tag or a timex. As for seiko, read the recent watch snob On them....
  9. MikeMc

    MikeMc

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    We are on WKF because we passionate about watches. I love watches, I have owned watches, mostly new, from a $15.00 Bulova Caravelle and a Lorus digital to a Rolex President. I can understand frustration with a watch brand, because of a problem you've had with a watch or service on a watch, or lack of service from a company. We have a watchmaker, trained on most brands, Rolex trained, Bulova Accutron trained (35 years ago, and no longer important), he works on automatics, and quartz, and he used to replace circuits on quartz watches when that was a viable alternative. He is also AWCI CMW21 accredited, and he's busy, we are 5-6 weeks out on service. I get to see most brands of watches, inside and out. I get frustrated when a company discontinues parts, or bands in only two years. I get mad when the bracelet doesn't have removable links or makes them so long that you can't get a good fit. I hate it when we send a customer's watch to the manufacturer's service center and they keep the watch and our money for 9 months. We no longer do that. I would buy any watch that I think looks cool, but I may have to accept that it can't be repaired, and that frustrates me when I like it and want to keep it. I get mad when a company discontinues my best selling model of their watch, lately many titanium models. I get frustrated when most watch companies say their watches are water resistant to 3 atm, 99 feet or 150 meters but you can't swim with them safely. If it doesn't have a round screw on back AND a screw down crown, it's not water tight. I can understand why someone won't pay $1000.00 or more for a watch, but I think there is often a good reason to spend more. I am not a watch snob, I like any watch that meets my needs, and sometimes that is a Luminox that glows at night, or a digital for running or timing. I love good design, and I appreciate Rolex for keeping the same look for generations. And, I like interesting designs that may not last long, but I have to balance the cost vs. benefit of any model. We only carry watch companies, not fashion companies producing watches. Thanks for letting me rant.
  10. REVolution

    REVolution

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    I guess there really doesn't need to be a reason other than pretentiousness to justify a purchase of a brand. You usually get great quality along with it.
  11. Korean Cowboy

    Korean Cowboy

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    Thanks for sharing that Mike, it's nice to see that another person here shares the same views about watches that I do. To me, I love all kinds of watches as well, and have owned several different ones. Currently, I have 11 watches in my humble collection, and of course, I look to grow it over time.

    I don't have anything over a couple of hundred bucks (right now), but that happens whenever you're newly married, and your wife has spent most of her time during our marriage at university (she just graduated this past December with a BA in Art History, her specialisation is in Modern art). Also, it'll happen whenever you're trying to switch careers in your mid-30s...LOL


    Anyways, I noticed that you said that watch companies are discontinuing titanium watches...any thoughts as to why? That's a shame if they all disappeared from the market, I was looking to get one for my next watch (if I don't find something else in the interim). I need to find one in the next couple of months...it'll be my birthday soon. :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2013, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2013 ---


    I will say that for the most part, everyone here at TKF appreciates the craftsmanship of high-end watches more than the brand. I have found that they eschew any type of watch that the general public would find desirable...for instance, this watch:

    [​IMG]

    Although my friends and family loved this watch, it was not well-received here. Kudos to everyone here for "looking past the brand". I'm not a "brand person" myself, I just like what I like.
  12. Restes Nek

    Restes Nek

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    Mike
    Interesting post and I don't want to put too fine of a point on this discussion but I would like to clarify a few things. I was replying to Cowboy and hadn't quite figured out the posting procedures yet.
    Secondly, I have been a watchmaker for 36+ years and any comment I make about a brand isn't ill-informed or informed any way other than from many years of repairing and restoring all brands of timepieces. I have been a dealer of many brands from Seiko to Vacheron also and I realize where our difference in opinions come from.
    I believe my comment about the Tag was spot on. The movement I was referring to is an ETA quartz chronograph. It is plastic and heat welded at the factory and cannot be repaired. If you break a stem off in the movement, you are going to have to buy a new movement. If you strip a gear you are going to have to purchase the complete movement. My supplier sells the movements for about $50.00. The stainless steel isn't that much so let's say another $50.00. Sapphire crystal $20.00 Gaskets add $10.00 and Crown $40.00. That leaves a balance of about $800. for what is left. This watch design is neither unique or special so you get no points for that so that leaves $800.00 that you are paying for the name.
    I understand, that as a dealer, your main concerns are going to be profit and volume. Tag does a good job advertising and I am sure they have a fair markup so you are invested in promoting the brand.
    My concern is value and workmanship. Value is the ratio between benefit (features) and price. I don't see it in many high priced watches.
    Another negative of many watches with presumed values is residual value when you wish to sell it.
    Rolex is a brand of high presumed value (great marketers) but when you sell one you will get all your money back. Can't say the same for Tags.
    To say that the $100-300 Seiko line doesn't compare to vintage styles is a moot point. Hardly anything today compares to the workmanship and quality of the vintage ones. The new Tags don't compare to the original Heuers.
    You are right about Tag not being Swatch. I meant to say it is part of a Swatch like company.
    This is not meant to be an attack on a particular brand of watches or a promotion of another. I certainly don't mean it as an attack on you.
    We just look at the same items from different perspectives.
    I believe that a person should be able to make an informed decision without all the hype from the claims of the manufacturers. I also believe one should be able to like and own any brand they find appealing.
    SZCZECIN likes this.
  13. MikeMc

    MikeMc

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    I agree with most of your comments. We pick watch brands based on several criteria; First, would we want to own it ourselves? Does the watch meet the needs of our clients, and is it a watch company? can we do most repairs in house? as we find this better serves our customers. Is the price fair in the marketplace? This is arguably the most subjective. And last, can we sell enough of this line in our size market? And if the answer is yes to all of these, then we consider the line. If this criteria is met, then we'll likely make money on the watch, but on many lines we carry we don't make money. We just feel it's the best product for our customers. Love Patek Philippe, but couldn't sell enough in our market to carry them. I also believe quartz watches meet the needs of a large percentage of our customers better than automatics or hand wind watches do. I'm happy to have both. And I don't agree that most watches today are inferior to vintage watches, Rolex movements today are more accurate, we have fewer problems with the movement, and the bracelets have been markedly improved the the latest bracelet. Compare a 70's or 80's Jacoby Bender jubilee bracelet to the Swiss model next generation, to the current one. Today's is the best! or the Oyster bracelet with the riveted links, or the stretch links, to the current models. The seal of the case is better than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The serviceability of the Daytona 4130 movement, consistant size of the the screws for example, over the Zenith movement. And, by inference, you don't think ETA has improved their automatics in the last 35 years. I may agree that older watches are cool, but, in my opinion, they are not ususally superior. There are, of course, exceptions. Value is often subjective, and I value the watch that best serves the needs of my customers. I know what works, and what is hype, and there are some things I don't like about the brands I carry, but not the quality for the dollar spent. Anyone that loves watches, that has years of experience would like to design the perfect watch, eliminating the things we don't like, and incorporating the things we do like, unfortunately we usually don't get that opportunity. I don't feel so old that 1970's & 80's seem vintage to me, i.e. Seiko of the 70's.
  14. Restes Nek

    Restes Nek

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    I agree with your post. The retail watch business is fraught with difficulties. What to stock, when to buy and how to sell. One always has the wrong style at the wrong time. I remember when I sold Rolex. At one time I think I owned every blue dial sub in Ohio. Couldn't sell one. Would love to have them now.
    I don't mean to say that watches haven't improved over the years. For example Rolex technology is always evolving. The 3135 caliber today certainly is heads above the old bubble backs. And who longs for the return to the old bumper autos. Don't miss that rattle. But new isn't always better. The reality is that as costs rise some companies have resorted to cutting corners. The $100. Seiko 7S movements use more plastic than I would like. Some say an improvement, I'm not sure.
    Older watches have a hands on manufacturing feel that the newer ones don't.
    You are right on when you say that the value is determined by the needs of your customers and only you can know the answer to that.
    My opinions are, and have always been based on construction and materials. That is what I deal in. I rarely offer advice to buyers as my job is to keep their babies going as long as possible.
    You make a valid point when you compare the Daytona 4130 to the El Primero. The Zenith's are a nightmare to service. The calendar mechanism alone has twice as many parts as necessary to work properly. It was designed as though the company was paid on the basis of the number of parts in the watch. But, having said that, there is a poetry to the El Primero.
    You understand the concept of value and I am sure your customers receive the most for the money, unfortunately many people succumb to the hype of many manufacturers and retailers and wind up with a product that doesn't have value.
    As for vintage, my criteria is if I have to go to more that 3 suppliers to find a part it is vintage. More than five, it is a boat anchor.
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  15. MikeMc

    MikeMc

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    What are your thoughts about Panerai? I've had very little experience with them, some had ETA movements, I don't know anything about their "in house" movement.
  16. andrew

    andrew

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    yeah i do agree ..............
  17. Restes Nek

    Restes Nek

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    You are going to make me paint myself into a corner here. Panny makes a nice watch. The quality of the movement is nice. The main problem I see with them is that they are a small niche timepiece. They're styling is very limited and you pay a lot of money for a watch that looks like all the others. I think the popularity will wane and the sales will drop unless they update the line. Having said all that I will concede that Panerai is very successful at what they do. I haven't worked on one of their in-house movements so I can't attest to the durability and timekeeping ability. ​
    I would rather take the money and put it towards a Breitling or a 5513 Sub. ​
    I would hate to be deeply invested in the retail watch business today. I admire your dedication. From the buy-ins required by the manufacturers to the competition. You not only have to compete with other brick and mortar businesses, many of which will deeply discount watches to generate traffic, the gray marketeers, to the internet sellers who have very low overhead and constrained by a smaller market area. ​
    Having our discussions here has made me think hard about what determines the value of an item. It is very subjective and open to interpretation. For me the value would be determined by whether the item met my needs at an affordable price. I would set the parameters of need and price. Mine wouldn't be the same as yours or someone else's. So the need of a person could be the necessity of impressing one's friends and if money wasn't a consideration, a watch I might consider gaudy or overpriced would meet the value requirement of that person.​
    There are certain brands that I do not like and warn people away from that are popular. So who is right? The eternal question.​
    I think the value of a forum like this is to get many sides of an issue and pick it apart and lay it out in the light for people to see and make informed decisions. ​
    I look forward to exchanging more with you​
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  18. SZCZECIN

    SZCZECIN

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    Well - from someone with about thirty watches to tell the time, I am impressed with the above exchanges. Differing, yet converging points of view make for interesting analytical reading. I am not a watch maker, service technician or seller, but one interested in the intricicies of timekeeping. I also have over twenty clocks, from a 1720 longcase to LCD jobs.

    One big disadvantage of living on the Isle of Wight, here in Old Blighty, is the lack of watches and repairers. I have just picked up a nearly mint Omega Seamaster automatic for £200, but without any papers, from an antique dealer here - at the other end of the spectrum a Timex quartz for £14. Both keep immaculate time, yet for posing, the Omega wins.
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  19. Korean Cowboy

    Korean Cowboy

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    Nice finds mate! Those are two of my favourite brands...post some pictures here!
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2013, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2013 ---


    It's always good to see things from a different perspective...I personally am not "in the know" like some people here, so it's good to get some insight as to what's really going on. Like all things, I prefer to look past the brand name and perceived prestige/status, and appreciate the real quality of the timepiece. As long as it keeps accurate time and looks good, I'm good to go.
  20. Scot

    Scot

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    I to have many good things to say for timex. Nothing there but a nice little time keeper, after all that's what it is. As far as Tag I've wanted one since Steve McQueen sported the brand on his fire suit in the movie La Mans. I know it's just a movie, in real it was Rolex for Steve. Still that sold a ten year old boy and I've wanted one ever since. But then there are not to many watches I don't want. Perspective , great post thanks, Scot